Proposed changes to the these classes (will be in games I dm, from this point on)

Warblade:

*Remove infinite power loop

*HD changed to 1d10/level

Fighter

*change 2 skill points/level to 4

*Add Knowledge (Military), Knowledge (Local), and Spot as class skills

*Gain Exotic Armor Prof at level 11

*Gain Exotic Shield Prof at level 11

*Fighter Focus class ability, Fighter flexibility class ability

Fighter Focus

Level 1: +1 to hit with chosen weapon
Level 3: +2 to damage with chose weapon
Level 5: Quickdraw with chose weapon
Level 7: Improved Crit with chosen weapon
Level 9: +2 to hit with chosen weapon
Level 11: +4 damage with chosen weapon
Level 13: +2 to hit/+2 damage with chosen weapons and simialr weapons
Level 15: Power Critical with chosen weapon
Level 17: Weapon Supremacy with chosen weapon

These abilities do not stack with Weapon Focus, Weapon Spec, Grt, Focus, Grt. Spec, Imp Crit, Quickdraw, Weapon Mastery, Power Crit, and Weapon Supremacy

Fighter Flexibility
At levels 6, 12, and 18 add one more weapon as a chosen weapon to the Fighter focus ability

Weapon Spec, Greater Focus, Greater Spec now require AB vs. fighter levels.

I beleive that these changes will rebalance these two classes.  As a note, a fighter should be played as a soldier, while a warblade is more of a dualist or blade expert.

Well this is the first time that I have looked at this.

I have to say, I think you went over the top on this. This looks rediculously powerful. 9 feats in the tree, some gotten before fighters normally even have access to them. Then, at 6, 12, and 19, they get them all again for 3 other weapons. This gives them 36 extra feats, before normal fighter bonus feats, which are 11.

47 extra feats as a fighter. Screams op to me. Thats even more spells than I get as a wizard!

So lets compare to other classes. Lets say you go dual weilding, which is easy to get the entire tree this way. @ 20th lvl, you have +4 to hit from feats and +6 to damage from feats, along with other bonuses. Dual weilding eats a 2 penalty, dropping you to a +2. Lets compare this to another class that is designed to get lots of attacks: Monk. Monk gets 3 at max bab, 1 at -5, and 1 at -10. Lets assume wep focus unarmed aswell.

So, before stats, the monk sits at 16/16/16/11/6.

The fighter sits at 22/22/17/17/12/12/7.

Lets compare it to another similar class: the baba.

Baba's get rage, which is a semi potent ability: extra hp, to hit, damage, for reduced ac. At 20th level, the bonuses sit at 8s. Lookin at a +4 modifier to hit and damage, similar to what our fighter was looking at before. Lets compare armor class w/o magic (easier). Baba is restricted to medium armor. best in it's class is breastplate, looking at +5/+3, and assume a heavy shield, another +2. On top of that, the have DR 5/-. But because of rage (which puts them as close as possible to the offensive capability of a fighter) they take a 2 hit to AC. so we are looking at, before magic, an 18AC. Now lets look at the fighter: Full plate is +8/+1. Tower shield +4. JUST COUNTING BONUS FEATS we can take armor spec and shield spec. Now the fighter has DR 2/- and +1 ac. Thats a 24AC.

So the Baba sits at 18AC

The fighter: 24

30% chance difference.

While these comparisons are not by any means complete, and there are many more things to look at, the fighter as you have it written is entirely too powerful in my opinion. It outshines the Baba even more than it used to, and I dont think the paladin holds a torch to it either anymore. When comparing it to like classes, the baba and the paladin, it seems entirely too much better.

I left out sources outside the base PHB because there are simply too many things to compare and contrast to. The point that I am trying to make is that It is significantly better than other PHB classes as you have it written. As a DM, you are more than welcome to make any and all changes that you want to your campaigns. But I will not be using these canges in my campaigns.

Edit: As for the warblade, I agree with taking out the infinate power loop, but I feel the reduction in HD is unnessisary.

The players handbook states that the fighter is a professional soldier yaddayaddaydda.  The fighter is supposed to have a huge benefit in that he is adaptable.

Warblade is (very nearly) intended by the Tome of Battle to replace fighter (IMO).

Issues:

(1) Warblade is the single most deadly basher.  Period.

(2) Fighter looses his flexibility the moment he takes his first feat.

(3) Feats are far weaker than spells, and they do not scale well.

I reviewed your notes, and I'm going to see how the class balances for a "trial run".  I noticed that yo compared fighter ab to monk ab, fighter ac to baba ac.  I'd point out that yo are comparing what is intended to be a strength of the fighter against weaknesses of other classes.

Monk does sacrifice AB.  In exchange, they become powerful AC classes, with many immunities and a far less paiful weapon step-down.

Baba is a low AC concept from the word go.  The purpose of the build is damage & durability from rage.

Now, you've noted that this concept may be OP.  I'm willing to conceed that.  But I think it's worth investigating more.  For example, to compare with a paladin, we'd have to have someone run a fully mounted paladin beside that fighter.  Paladin's main scaling is the mounted abilities.  My goal is to make the fighter a good relative strength baseline.  From that baseline, other similar bashers gain power for sacrifices (such as ab for the monk, ac for the baba, restricitve code for the paladin, etc.).

As for WB:  I'd encourage you to run that same comparison to monk and baba and see what you come up with.

Also, I'm not "anti-warblade".  I just think the class needs MAJOR motifications to play nice with everyone else.  If not, then everyone who wants to be a basher will go WB.  Though some will say "what's the issue with that?", I feel that an add-on class should not 100% replace a base class, especially one of the big 4 archetypes.

You are an adventuring opportunist, willing to go wherever

the next fi ght leads you. You’ll take up quests, you’ll accept

commissions, and you’ll even consider taking on leadership

roles, as long as you can practice your warrior’s craft. You

know fi ghting—none know it better. Other combatants with

exotic martial styles or those who mix spells with swords

obscure what is most important—who’s the best? Who can

put their sword in an enemy’s guts fi rst? You, that’s who.

You are a straight-up, no-nonsense person, and you know

the value of your hard-won, long practiced skills. While you

take great risks in hopes of receiving an equally big payout,

for you the thrill of combat is at least as compelling as the

loot at adventure’s end

The warblade was born for confl ict. Swift, strong, enduring,

and utterly confi dent in his martial skills, he seeks to test

himself against worthy foes. Battle is beautiful to him—a

perfect moment in which life hangs suspended on the

bright edge of a sword. Sheer combat skill is important to a

warblade, so he trains intensely with his chosen weapons. But

even more important are his athleticism, endurance, daring,

recklessness, and joy in the hour of danger. Warblades, often

called sword princes, live for the chance to test themselves

in battle—the stronger the foe, the greater the glory once

an enemy is defeated.

The above post is taken directly from the source books.  The first paragraph describes fighters (PHB2), the second Warblades.  Now...I think most important to this discussion are the three following points:

1) Is the WB over-powered? (my opinion is yes)
2) Does the warblade make the concept of a fighter a bit of a joke? (yes, IMO)
3) Should either class be changed to correct this imbalance? (yes, IMO, one class needs to be fixed.).

http://severantos.webs.com/wbcomparison.htm ; I've filled out the core comparisons at this link.

I've been reading a lot of material, and a lot of references, Zal's tier system.  I just a crazy notion:  Why not switch the whole group over to the tier system.  Gestalt and partial gestalt becomes available for shite classes?  That way, there is no big rebuild, and we can maybe restore balance (which is my eventual goal).

Ok, so after a cruddy weekend of being sick, and having a lot of time to think, I see the main problem with what I was attempting to do.  There are 53 base classes, and rebalancing fighter to WB, while effective in this manner, does nothing to address balance with the other 20 or so melee classes.  I've decided that the next tiem we play, I'd like to give the Tier system that Zalon found a shot.  I've added a page under resources to deal with it.  If WB way OP?  Compared to Fighter, yes.  Compared to say, a Favored Soul?  nope, not at all.

I concour. The Teir system, as I have mentioned to several of you, seems like a very good idea. My only concern is at the low levels, but we can discuss this as we gather to work this stuff out.