So we started doing this pug thing... and i appreciate the want for a pick up gaming session when not everyone can show to a gaming session but  heres the thing... i do not want to play pug i have no desire to play in pug i made a character for pug because thats what everyone else is doing. but half the reason i dont show up on friday/saturday nights is this pug thing. I dont like straight combat no story bullcrap.. i'll stay at home and play call of duty for that.

the combat in dnd is fun but we push for this all the god dam time when we play. i understand its a necessary part of the game but it's a slow process. it can take us up to an hour to do 2 minutes of actual combat. and you wonder why i sit on my laptop and play solitaire. unfortunately this is a table top game.

now i realize that i'm probably coming off really dickish here but heres the thing. I like playing dnd because i get to experience a story with my friends, something that i cant do with fable or fallout or w/e. but TO ME we have moved away from that and are hyperfocusing on combat builds.

I want to show up to play nicks campaign or mikes mist campaign or daves campaign. I DO NOT want to show up to make another fucking character and smash my face into the table for mindless combat. If you want to set calander days for when we will do whose campaign that would be great. For instance this friday i get off work at 530. it would be great to sit down and do nicks campaign if we can all make it there. but i gurantee you if someone says "well we might be doing pug" then i will not show. i will sit at home and play Brink. I also realize that if i don't show the group is more likely to play pug however this is why i want someone to set up a calander date.

As far as Joe's Campaign goes, i'd happily jump into that and create a character but im tired of running all this minor campaigns. to me i see 4 campaigns i wish to take part in, Mist, Dave's, Nick's, and Joe's. im way to lazy to pay any attention to the 2-3 people ones or PUG at all.

Again im sorry if im coming off really dickish nothing in here is intended to put anyone down, the examples i used are not based on anyone in particular. im just venting my frustrations with the current state of this dnd group.

I'm gonna hafta agree with Brosef Stalin here. Pug was supposed to be our alternative if we didn't have a campaign group together... As far as I can tell, over the past 7-8 years we've been gaming together, we've never been strictly bound to having the entire group present, and I don't think we should change that. If there's 1 person gone from a campaign, so what? make their character debilitatingly ill for a day, and move on.

We're all busy, and some days we'll be available, others we won't. It's true of all of us, so I don't think anyone will be (or should be) butthurt if their group continues on without them. 

I think we should try to refocus and get back to the tabletop Roleplaying as the main event of D&D nights rather than having it be "D&D arena"

-Z

There are 2 main points in Brian's post:

 

1) Videogames handle combat better than D&D

(I agree with this.)

 

2) The best part of D&D roleplaying a unique story

I agree with this too.  Actually, I don't like pugging either; I just offered to do it to be more social and keep participating in the group.  I'll respond to the laptop issue in the appropriate thread.

 

responding to point 1: Our group uses one of the slower (if not slowest) versions of combat (rerolling initiative each battle/encounter/etc, not rolling damage and attack simultaneously, constantly waiting to react to what each individual does rather than just have everyone act for their 6 second round and just tell the DM what their action is for that round in initiative order, etc)

I still agree that pug is MUCH less fun than a campaign, but I will also say that there is a LOT of changes we could make as a group to make things go more quickly

-Z

Just remember, guys, that PUG wasn't designed to be played all the time like we have been. The origional idea behind PUG was if we couldnt get enough people together for one of our campaigns we could run pug. That way we could still play but not leave people out of the larger campaigns where missing a day could be vital.

We have been playing PUG a lot lately. I think this is for a couple reasons: 1) At first, it really seemed like people were enjoying it. I know I was. Playing a mini-story where people were getting killed and killing and having some slight story behind it was thrilling for a bit.    2) we had trouble for a while getting everyone for a campaign together, or we had an addition that made it unwise to have them play a character for just one session. This is no one in particular's fault, but I generally dont want to run a campaign if people are missing.

I understand people's frustrations here: I share some of them. I do like the roleplay more than the combat more often than not. But D&D is a combat system as well. Combat is an integral part of D&D in my mind and, as such, a very important part of my characters and my campaigns.

I honestly think that, as time goes on and we get consistant groups going we will see much less of PUG. It is still there for the (hopefully) fluke time when we only have 3 people show up, and I know I will always have a PUG session ready if need be. Also, on the campaign side, maybe we can start running campaigns if we are down a single person or something, which kinda sucks for that person but allows the other people who were able to attend a continuation of the story.

TLDR: I agree, but lets not get mad. Its there for a reason, and I think we need to focus more on being there for the real campaigns so that we dont need to rely on PUG, but have it for the times when a campaign just doesnt work for the night.

Oops dont know why its weird

I enjoy PUG >_> guessing that's cause I'm a bit strange...

That aside, I would like to see people show up to play -regardless- of what campaign is going on. This would mean, however, that if there aren't enough (or the right) people there to run a campaign then those present run a PUG instead. I understand not wanting to show up for PUG, but that is the fall back point for the group. If you won't show up because we -might- PUG, then you're right you won't get to play the sessions you enjoy because PUG is meant to be the backup that we always -might- play if people decide not to show.

I am up for playing whatever works for the group, so long as my schoolwork doesn't interfere with being there. PUG, campaign, sit around and just hang out, whatever works for the group.

I think the reason I'm struggling with pug so much is that the character I've been playing through this point is pretty much completely useless in PUG. a 1d4 slam and the ability to vomit up wolves occasionally isn't exactly combat competance. I don't DISLIKE  PUG. I have been frustrated with it occasionally, yes, but 99% of that comes from either my character being useless or the fact that the group has hyperfocused on PUG lately. 

I totally agree with Oni, I think we should all be prepared for both, but I think the first priority should be persistant campaigns (as was the original intent, IIRC)

-Z

/agree

One more notion to consider:

PUG can be planned in teh case where someone wants to run a small one-off adventure or guest DM.  But I also think that there needs to be a higher responsibility set for the PUG DM's to create content with less combat and more story.  To that end, look at some of the shorter moduled adventures.  5-10 pages of information is perfect for PUG, as that will be (generally) 1-2 sessions.  I think we all too wrapped up in the verbage of PUG.  While it means "Pick-up Game", that doesn't mean that we can't hold a high standard of content.

On that note, Paladin, I kinda disagree with you. If we see in advance that we won't have enough people to run one of our campaigns, that is fine. No problem whatsoever. But, if we have everyone showing up, I would hate to lose the time we have to play one of our actual campaigns.

Just my 2 sense

Sev, that also makes it impossible for anyone to guest DM, or for a DM to run a smaller adventure (I own a few that I'd like to run, and Night wants to run an adventure that she created.).  Occational planned PUGS should be fine.  Main focus can still be Persistant Campaigns, but leave the door open for more than "Oh, we don't have enough folks".

Not really. I can guarantee that fairly often we are not going to have enough people to run one of our full blown campaigns. If people had mini adventures that they wanted to run, PUG would be an amazing time to try them out! I would rather plan for the full length adventures then plan for the smallers, because we will always have people for PUG, but wont always have people for the full campaigns.

Edit:

Im not saying that this cant be an occaional thing. I honestly am not trying to rain on Diane's parade. I just would rather plan for the things that require a full group so that if we have everyone, we can, but if we dont, we can do PUG.