Ok guys, I might seem like the bad guy here, but bear with me a second.

Ive been noticing over the past couple months or so (and a bit more, but lately in particular) people on their laptops while we are trying to play. I really have no problem with laptops: they allow us to access our plentiful supply of books. The only problem I am seeing is them distracting the group from the goal of roleplaying.

So here is what I propose: lets put the laptops away when we are playing. The DM can have one out for rules and campaign notes if they want, but for the most part, we understand our classes fairly well and dont need them out. If you need to check a class ability when we are playing, fine. Just put it away when you are done. Im just looking for a way for us to stay more focused and accomplish one of the goals of the evening: roleplaying.

I understand most of the counter arguments, as this has come up before. I would rather not ask someone to put their laptop away on the spot because it feels like I am singling them out. I understand that some people make complicated builds/classes, but we should be alright if you jot down some notes on note paper so we dont need to always refer to the books.

For times like leveling and before we start playing, there is no problem. I just have been noticing our tendency to get off task, and I want to experiment to see if putting the computers away when we dont need them will help.

I concur and will abide.

Yeah, we talked about this earlier. I'm of the same mindset, laptops away during RP. Notes work for class features/abilities, and that is doable with paper.

1.  you are the bad guy.
2.  I'm down with this, but I'd also suggest that at some point we all pitch in a few bucks and print out the spell compendium or spell sections in a few books so that casters have all the spells they'll need to reference (as that's the most common need for books in daily gaming)

3.  Derp

4. agreed.

-Z

Ayep, totally agree.

http://severantos.webs.com/apps/forums/topics/show/4856033-pug?page=last

my opinion is in there and im willing to abide as i see fit. if we are doing rp, i wont be on my laptop, if we're doing combat, i probably will be.

I agree that laptops are fundamentally anti-social. People used to say they were used for looking up info or "saving wear on the books", but they're actually used for trolling forums, distracting other players by giggling over funny photos, or playing Minesweeper.

That being said, the combats that I've seen in this group are usually (if accidentally) designed to take a realllllly long time to play out. This game is optimized for 4 players--not 7--and you pay for the extra participation with extra downtime. Also, Mike's and Dave's combats usually feature a lot of NPC enemies, and a medium amount of NPC allies--all of whom need to roll initiative and use all their special abilities. And sometimes these NPCs summon monsters--adding even more units to the battlefield. So I agree that laptops are not serving their indended purpose, but I also assert that DMs need to design their content to be more appealing to players. RP is not being constrained by players using laptops; RP is being constrained by DMs designing encounters that are way too complicated to be resolved in a timely or exciting fashion.

As a DM, I'm going to nix Laptop use, save for during leveling.  Players will have a choice of either (A) abiding by that restriction, or (B) not participating in events that I DM.

Paladin... I don't see why your last post was even remotely necessary... everyone has already agreed to not using laptops.  

You're the one who has warned me about using such absolute terms in general conversation, and now anyone who might feel like asking about a conditional use of laptop (like me looking up spells when i play Nadia, since i don't know dick all about what the specifics of most spells are off the top of my head, and hitting ctr+f is infinitely faster than fumbling through books that may or may not have the spell i'm looking for) now feel alienated and like there's no room for discussion... which is a bad thing, 'cuz that's the whole point of these forums: talking about shit so we can resolve issues in a way that helps the most people and works best for the group.

-Z

"my opinion is in there and im willing to abide as i see fit. if we are doing rp, i wont be on my laptop, if we're doing combat, i probably will be." -Keyes

Not everyone agreed, Zal.  In fact, you also just disagreed.  Also, Laptops are not jsut used for look-up.  They are used for funny pictures, typing notes, playing games that are NOT D&D, etc.

But you want to call me out.  Fine.  Everytime I've had people's attention wander b/c they don't like the D&D combat system, or their character is not the "active" character, and I have to raise my voice to get attention back, I feel disrespected.  Every second that is saved using ctrl+f is then expended 3 fold in goofing around.  Finally, you say that everyone has agreed, so what is wrong with my post, if everyone is ALREADY on board?

Alright, Im getting tired of the raised emotions and fighting. Fucking moderator here I come:

Keyes:

You may not find combat fun, but imo its a part of the game. I roll it in there because I thought people enjoyed it. I enjoy it, along with the roleplaying. I try to balance out my campaigns so that we can have some of both. But when you take out your laptop and start doing other stuff, it starts to slow us down even more. Each time your turn comes around in combat, we have to explain to you what just happened because you wernt paying attention. If you did, combat might go that much faster. As to combat's duration and with npc's, I never saw it as a problem, but will start to work on it.

Paladin:

You came across pretty hard there. You coulda worded that a liitle more tactfully. I have no problem with you impementing rules for your sessions: hell, I do it to sometimes. But please: that wording just seemed like a slap in the face to me. This forum was for the discussion of putting away laptops to get people's feelings on the matter. Keyes brought up his perspective, and to me it seems like you just went and shot him down. Not exactly constructive thinking here.

Zalon:

I understand the ease of ctrl+f. It is very, very handy. The problem that I have with it is the other stuff that happens on the computer. I would not mind allowing laptops in my campaign if there use was very limited and ONLY FOR D&D. I make that caps because of the sheer amount of other stuff that goes on with a laptop slows down gameplay, which I have seen is a complaint made by just about everyone at some point. Books are handy because they dont let you do other stuff with them really. For casters, do what I do: take notes on you spells so that you dont have to look them up everytime you need to use them.

Opal:

I never realized people's perspectives on large combats with allies and many enemies. With this in mind, I will try to rework my encounters to resemble such. Thanks for bringing it up.

Ok guys, there is my rant at everyone. I got a limit before I gotta say something, and while I may come across as harsh (i gotta leave for work or i would reword stuff) I just gotta get it out there and I think its for the betterment of the group.

Only love, gentlemen. No hate intended

Edit: Now, lets play nice kids

Paladin, you need to calm down. I'm not attacking you, nor am i "calling you out"  I didn't disagree, i mentioned ASKING about CONDITIONAL use of laptops. 

"anyone who might feel like asking about a conditional use of laptop (like me looking up spells when i play Nadia"

I hadn't seen keyes post... i'm a human: I get +1 feat and +4 skill points, but I still make mistakes

Zal, I'm calm.  I'm just trying to figure out me stating my rules when I'm the DM is a problem.  Perhaps you can let me know where I erred.

I don't have any disagreements with you stating rules, I disagree with how you stated your rule. To put it bluntly, this forum is for rules DISCUSSION, not rules ultimatums. As I said, you phrasing the way you did, in those same types of absolute terms you warned me to beware of, removes the opportunity for discussion, debate, and or questions. I take Sev's point/idea about taking notes, but I don't know if/when I'll have the time to make notes about any/all spells I want to have ready at a moments' notice.

When you're DMing, it is definitely your perogative to make whatever rules you wish. Hell, you could make a rule that everyone must wear lavender party hats encrusted with rhinestones in the shape of unicorns (which would be rather awesome, if you ask me.) It never has been nor will be my place to tell you you can't make your own rules, I just want you to keep in mind that making rules without even hearing arguments or other sides or compromises is a great way to potentially alienate players both quickly and absolutely.

-Z

See the cat?  *giggle-snorts*  (sorry, thought we could use some humor)  

if your making this rule about laptops the same needs to be made about smart phones, cuz thats the same thing as having a laptop at the board. and yes i know i dont have a smart phone and yes i plan on being made avaliable for texting. but if you're going to claim that browsing the internet is a huge distraction then the smart phones have to go. because posting shit on facebook, or looking up funny pictures there is almost the exact same as a laptop....my screen's just bigger.

and as far as my bitching about combat goes...i'm with opal on this.. we have a bunch of people there for a campaign, which is great don't get me wrong, but all the npc's that get dragged into it slow everything way down. i realize if im not paying attention then it may take longer but here's the thing...with as long as it already takes for us to get through the combat. the amount of time i'm adding.. i dont feel makes such a huge impact that you're making it out to be sev.

Yea, I will agree with you on the topic of Smart Phones. I have no problem not allowing them as well. Texting is one thing, and is generally infrequent, so I have no problem there, but browsing the internet/playing games is the same on a cell as it is a laptop.

 As for combat, it may not be a big deal, may not take a whole bunch ot time, but everything helps. If we want to help expidite combat, I need to revise my take on things a little bit, but we also need to try stuff on the other end. How much time will it actually save? I have no idea. A minute for all of combat? Two minutes? I dont know. But baby steps, and we gotta start somewhere

Laptops out, and not being used for what is going on in D&D, has been a major distraction since we started using them. I've tried to address this more than once, and nothing ever changed. It needs to change with how the group is functioning, trying to stay more on task with less distractions, because it is a huge distraction. I have to say that I agree, at least somewhat, with Pally here. I feel disrespected by players who are goofing around on their laptop when I am DMing, regardless of the reason. I don't really care if your character is involved with what's going on or not, I feel like if you are going to be at the table then you should be respectful of what is going on there.

Smart phones don't bother me as much. I don't think I have seen anyone looking up non-game related material on their phone at a session yet, well maybe music, but that almost always stops when gaming starts. Maybe I just missed it, but the laptop is a MUCH larger distraction, and it's not just because of the screen size.

Yes, combat is slow, and yes some of it is the fault of the DM. However, this does not negate the fact that the laptops are a distraction and a lot of us would like to see their use during play times minimized, if not eliminated entirely. The argument that you aren't adding that much time to the length of things doesn't really apply here. Any time added is still time added, and it's disrespectful to the DM and other players. I can't speak for other DMs, but I have routinely thrown curveballs, storyline curveballs, at parties in combat situations. Having even one player that isn't paying attention, for any reason, wastes time and, well I'll say it again, is disrespectful to all involved.

I would generally be happy to see laptops disappear from our group.  But I would also encourage DM's to metagame a lot more than they are currently doing. Your players don't care about you (your NPCs, your story); players care about their accomplishments, their achievements, and their progression. If they can get those things--in the context of your world--then they'll be happy.  If not, then there will be plenty of disrespecting distractions whether laptops are in play or not.  But a lot of DM's make story or game mechanics decisions without even considering how they will affect pacing of the actual *board game*.

As an example of this, all casters have some limits on the spells they can use.  (They either know some small subset of spells or must prepare some small subset of spells.) But Mike decided that clerics don't have to prepare spell lists in the Mist campaign because appeals to a deity are inherently spontaneous.  This allows Nadia to spontaneously cast every cleric spell in the game, so maybe--just maybe--Greg will spent all of his combat downtime reading spell lists and not paying attention to game events.  He could print out 200 pages of cleric spells, not bring his laptop, and make the DM repeat a bunch of stuff--because the DM gave him a huge extra incentive to not pay attention.  DM's don't just create content; they have to structure and pace the content so that every character stays involved with what's going on.  That is not easy to do, and is not a strict rule (obviously not ALL characters can stay involved ALL the time) but some DM's in this group don't even recognize structure and pacing as design constraints.

Hey guys just testing this out but also a serious question:

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edit: FML. didnt work. Hate these forums